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Post by Sabastos on Nov 7, 2010 19:35:40 GMT
Please look over the attached final version of the founder's charter and make any comments you have about any of the items it contains. Once we have at least 12 active members on the forum, we can finalize revisions and comments and move this to the polls for ratification. Please make your comments to this topic thread. The ROICs mentioned in Art 7 that are part of the charter can be found in the "Published Works" under "regional presidium." If you have any questions, please PM me or Imperator. Attachments:
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Post by Admin Imperator on Nov 7, 2010 23:48:03 GMT
Everything looks to be in order. I have not additional comments to add. I will check back to answer any questions about definitions or other issues. I have also posted all of the approved ROICs. Basileus sent me four of them that were approved on the IPBFree board that were presumed lost. He was able to recover them from "cached" pages on google. I have also posted the Letters Patent that has a history of each individual article's approval as we had agreed back in June.
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Acryland
Continental Union II 
Former Foreign Relations Minister[M:0:0:0:]
Posts: 52
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Post by Acryland on Nov 8, 2010 2:42:09 GMT
Looks good to me.
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Post by Yávaros on Nov 9, 2010 17:36:11 GMT
Hey muchachos! I read the attachment. It looks very good and it is a little long. Where are the other parts that sabastos said in the message? I am moving back home to Sonora for a while again. I have more internet access at my parents house so I can get on more.
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Post by Basileus Romanus on Nov 10, 2010 22:57:00 GMT
I obviously like it since I approved it last month. But, I still want to discuss the wa delegate part of this. I really think the delegate should automatically go to the person elected chancellor. And I'm not saying this because I'm the chancellor. Remember, once the econ gets running, I'll want to manage that and I won't have time to be the chancellor too. I also think the delegate/chancellor should have admin rights on the ns profile for the region. I know we've argued about it before, but let's see what everyone else has to say so we can amend this thing before we get it approved.
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Post by Basileus Romanus on Nov 10, 2010 23:09:20 GMT
Hey guys! See my comments about the chancellor/delegate deal on the other thread about the charter. I don't feel like writing it again.
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Post by Imperator Rex on Nov 11, 2010 5:43:00 GMT
I obviously like it since I approved it last month. But, I still want to discuss the wa delegate part of this. I really think the delegate should automatically go to the person elected chancellor. And I'm not saying this because I'm the chancellor. Remember, once the econ gets running, I'll want to manage that and I won't have time to be the chancellor too. I also think the delegate/chancellor should have admin rights on the ns profile for the region. I know we've argued about it before, but let's see what everyone else has to say so we can amend this thing before we get it approved. I am going to wait for Sabastos to look at this. When we started this conversation on the old forum, everyone had some very good comments on this...especially Sabastos. You have a good point here, but I will stay out of this until everyone else has a chance to comment. |
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Post by Letor on Nov 11, 2010 23:35:24 GMT
I have downloaded the paper and will read it. I will put my comments here after I have done reading it. I think some of it I will remember from the other board when I was a member before.
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Post by Sabastos on Nov 14, 2010 1:19:16 GMT
OK. If I remember this is how our argument about this went on the other forum. All three of us have hasd some experiences with other regions. Some of them were not very good experiences. We saw alot of power struggles and banning going on when scheming members start getting back at others because they did not support what was going on. Part of the reason why we created this region was to keep things like that from going on. Sure a little drama is OK but not when it leads to people abusing their authority.
Having the chancellor as the delegate and giving him/her control over admin functions and giving them the abilty to ban at will is not a good idea unless the person has no agenda. When we create a democratic environment we want to make sure it stays that way and no one gets too much power. Countess can even attest to this. She mentioned how too much power in the wrong hands leads to a very uncomfortable situation that can also lead to members leaving. That's pretty much what I have to say about it.
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Post by Letor on Nov 15, 2010 16:38:27 GMT
I have some questions about the charter that I did not understand well.
1. Why are the other branches of government not mentioned. How do they function?
2. What happens if a proposal in the council is voted on and there are the same number of people for and against the proposal? I do not know what in english it is called (empate?)
3. Who are the officers in the council and presidium?
I read also the discussion on the delegate/chancellor question. I think sabastos is right about someone having too much power. But the founder has a lot of power too. I think some things need to be approved by council and not left to the founder. But there can be reasons for that.
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Post by Imperator Rex on Nov 15, 2010 19:18:14 GMT
I have some questions about the charter that I did not understand well. 1. Why are the other branches of government not mentioned. How do they function? 2. What happens if a proposal in the council is voted on and there are the same number of people for and against the proposal? I do not know what in english it is called (empate?) 3. Who are the officers in the council and presidium? I read also the discussion on the delegate/chancellor question. I think sabastos is right about someone having too much power. But the founder has a lot of power too. I think some things need to be approved by council and not left to the founder. But there can be reasons for that. Here are some answers to your questions: 1. The Founder's Charter is a foundation doc that is meant to be a cornerstone for setting up the region and establishing the responsibilities of the Founder and the Founder's Council (I FCh 1 ). The other branches of government will be addressed in the other constitutional doc called the "Articles of Confederation" (I FCh 2 & VI FCh 1 & 2). I did not think it proper to create a document that deals with other areas of Regional Governance without having many more members on here to make a more diverse decision. The members should establish parameters for those things. I did not want this to be arbitrary or established by only a few people who just happened to get on board in the beginning. 2. Empate = tie. That is a very good question that was not addressed. I think that a "tie" should be broken by the Founder. What does everyone else think? 3. There are only three offices addressed in the FCh that are part of the "Præsidium." It also mentions that the Founder can create additional offices as needed. The Founder will issue a Letters Patent listing Præsidium Officers and their responsibilities as authorized by IV FCh 8(b) & 8(e). As far as your other comments...I will not post my opinion for another couple of days to allow others to give their input. Thanks for giving us some ideas. I hope everyone else will continue to comment and make suggestions. |
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Post by Yávaros on Nov 16, 2010 0:21:15 GMT
I still think the chancellor and the delegate will be held by the same person. I agree with Letor on the too much power. But it looks like alot of those must be approved by the council before they take effect. There must be a guarante from the founder to use powers with conderation to others.
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Post by Dragos on Nov 16, 2010 17:40:31 GMT
I think it depends on how big the region is and how many people are on forum. WIth few people offices should be combined. I like the option that it can be separate and it can be together. No one person should have too much power. I also like the separate document about the other governement areas. It is a good idea to have other people decide what they want to do for the other things.
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Post by Basileus Romanus on Nov 16, 2010 21:13:49 GMT
OK so it looks like we have a couple for the position merge and some that don't. I say we put the question in the polls. We should also make a separate board for these constitutional discussions. It would make things easier to archive for future reference.
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Post by Sabastos on Nov 20, 2010 21:02:34 GMT
I think the positions should remain separate unless the council approves it and only when it is politically better to keep those two offices together. There should be some variations on the chancellor's office to fit this scenario. And these should be mentioned in the charter. The issue with the tie vote also has to be included. Should I post an edit version for everyone to look at? And I thought we were going to move these discussions to a separate board.
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